Roller Tip Rocker Arms

Jyrki

Team Member
Moderator
I got nope for answer from T&D Machine Products, and no answer from Rockerarms.com, so I got frustrated and designed my own. I'd like to get your thoughts about the design, especially regarding the oil supply. These are 1:65 theoretical ratio, with a fast opening/closing off-seat ramp. I'm using the roller tips of my scrap set of Crane Gold SBC rockers. They could be machined as well, but heat treating is a bit tricky.

My idea is to grind an oil passage around the bronze bushing, much like a main bearing, and pressure feed the roller tip and spring, as well as the pushrod side. Sure, this requires a larger oil passage to the rocker shaft.
 

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They look pretty straight forward. Machining wouldn't be hard. Do you have dimensions? I could play around at work.

Aren't there 3 different rockers. On the 320. A left right and center?I need to go pull my valve cover
 
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Handmedown,
You are correct. There are three different arms. The roller tip will have to move left, right, and center. Just for the record, the Salt Cat hasn't broken a stand, arm, or shaft. We use stock stuff. However, a 1.65 ratio would be nice, and a roller tip would be great.
Doug
 
Hi Jyrki,
A Question,
It looks like the small holes that goes throu the Arm are for the
splash-oiling to Springs and Pushrod..
is this correct ?

Jenz
 
Hi Jyrki,
A Question,
It looks like the small holes that goes throu the Arm are for the
splash-oiling to Springs and Pushrod..
is this correct ?

Jenz

This is correct. The stock rockers feed the pushrod through the adjusting screw, but it's better to feed this way. In the stock system, the oil hole gets blocked off if you need to turn the screw much in or out from the standard position. That said, you should get pushrods that give you maximum lift. With the stock rockers, it means turning the screw in, until the threads are flush with the rocker body (no threads showing on the pushrod side). Also, if you get aftermarket adjuster screws instead, it's easier to find screws without oil holes, and you are better off with a screw with full threads coupled with aluminum rockers, since aluminum needs a longer contact area.

As for the valve spring, the stock rocker has an oil hole on top, at the two o'clock position, squirting who knows where. And the oil holes in the shaft and in the rocker don't match very well
 
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Handmedown,
You are correct. There are three different arms. The roller tip will have to move left, right, and center. Just for the record, the Salt Cat hasn't broken a stand, arm, or shaft. We use stock stuff. However, a 1.65 ratio would be nice, and a roller tip would be great.
Doug

Yes, this is the exhaust rocker - all eight are straight. The intake rockers are offset at both ends, four of them are left hand and four of them are right hand.

The stock rockers are 1.5 nominal ratio. They give a slow off-seat motion, increasing in leverage (and opening rate) as approaching full lift. They won't break, that's for sure, but with .550" lift and 5/16" stem, they rub across the whole valve tip from one edge to another. Combined with a stiffer spring, that's something I don't want. They work better with the stock 3/8" stem, but the roller tip is still an improvement. With a roller tip, together with rocker shaft stands that give the correct geometry at mid-lift, the roller tip makes a mere 0.02" wide sweep across the valve tip (0.550" lift)

I'm going to use the stock shaft, too. But I'm going to make new stands. Saltracer said he found the stock shaft whip like crazy, nut he must be running a whole lotta spring pressure. The Comp beehive spring, retainer and locks that I'm going to use, weigh 45 grams less per valve than stock Buick (98 g versus 143 g). I think I'm going to start with 110 lbs seat.
 
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I don t think springs only are responsible for the stand and shaft to whip.
After reading Saltracer, I had a look at my 263 stands, with stock springs, and one is quite broken in half ...
Making stronger new ones should be easy, with the right tools of course, and will be an improvement even on a stock engine.
 
I don t think springs only are responsible for the stand and shaft to whip.
After reading Saltracer, I had a look at my 263 stands, with stock springs, and one is quite broken in half ...
Making stronger new ones should be easy, with the right tools of course, and will be an improvement even on a stock engine.

Saltracer specificly stated he made billet stands and the shaft was still whipping, until he made a new shaft. I can imagine the shaft ends whipping, but I have a hard time imagining the section between stands would be whipping.
 
Finally moving forward with this. This is the final design. 8 straight, 4 left, 4 right. I assume the 248/263 are same, only none straight, but 8 left and 8 right. The shaft diameter has been the same all the way from the '34-'36 233 engine.

These will be made of 7075 aluminum, the same ProCharger use to make their billet impellers. All weigh the same within 0.1 grams
 

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Finally moving forward with this. This is the final design. 8 straight, 4 left, 4 right. I assume the 248/263 are same, only none straight, but 8 left and 8 right. The shaft diameter has been the same all the way from the '34-'36 233 engine.

These will be made of 7075 aluminum, the same ProCharger use to make their billet impellers. All weigh the same within 0.1 grams

How much will you be charging per set of 16? Are you going to produce the rocker shaft as well? I presume they will be bushed versus needle bearings...
 
How much will you be charging per set of 16? Are you going to produce the rocker shaft as well? I presume they will be bushed versus needle bearings...

It's too early to say much about the cost. I'm not making these myself, just the basic design work. A machine shop will start making them soon, but I don't have a price tag yet. They will machine the bronze bushing and hardened steel roller tips as well. No, I'm not going to produce the shaft, but I am going to produce billet stands for the stock shaft. I'm going to use longer-than stock valves, and together with my rockers, the shaft height must be corrected
 
It's too early to say much about the cost. I'm not making these myself, just the basic design work. A machine shop will start making them soon, but I don't have a price tag yet. They will machine the bronze bushing and hardened steel roller tips as well. No, I'm not going to produce the shaft, but I am going to produce billet stands for the stock shaft. I'm going to use longer-than stock valves, and together with my rockers, the shaft height must be corrected

Keep me in mind for a set of roller rockers and stands for a 248/263 head... I will use the smaller stemed Chevy valves. :thumbsup:
 
I have been thinking about how to machine these and just dawned on me. Making them is actually real easy. Brain storming here. If u are making new rocker shaft and shaft mounts what is u were to offset the shaft say .030 toward the push rods and offset the pivot point of the rocker the same. Then you are gettin the extra ratio and no change in pushrod allignment?

Would this work
 
I have been thinking about how to machine these and just dawned on me. Making them is actually real easy. Brain storming here. If u are making new rocker shaft and shaft mounts what is u were to offset the shaft say .030 toward the push rods and offset the pivot point of the rocker the same. Then you are gettin the extra ratio and no change in pushrod allignment?

Would this work

Correct, it would work. But my 1:65 ratio rockers move the pushrods closer to the shaft only by 2 mm. That said, I'm still machining the pushrod holes in the head a little larger.
 
Keep me in mind for a set of roller rockers and stands for a 248/263 head... I will use the smaller stemed Chevy valves. :thumbsup:

I'm using Ferrea valves with 5/16" (8 mm) stems. The intake valve is lighter than the stock Buick exhaust valve!
 
Hi Guys<br>I'm just a normal mechanic without a complete Machineshop or a big Wallet.<br>I read this here with much interesting and try to learn many from you all <br>If anybody is interested,I will try now bigger Valves too(E=37 mm,45°,I=43mm,30°) in mi 263,they have also 8mm Stems and come from<br>a Deutzdieselengine.<br><br>Jens<br><br><br>
 
Hi Ratio rockers

:bana:
I have been thinking about how to machine these and just dawned on me. Making them is actually real easy. Brain storming here. If u are making new rocker shaft and shaft mounts what is u were to offset the shaft say .030 toward the push rods and offset the pivot point of the rocker the same. Then you are gettin the extra ratio and no change in pushrod allignment?

Would this work
I did it. Being a cut price person in a low budget land I couldn't even consider using custom roller rockers for a street cruiser. But knowing that the 263 had very little valve lift increase available at the cam after a regrind that modified the duration and lobe separation, I was force to look to the rockers for any significant increase in gross lift at the valves. As the lobe centers get moved together and any increases in duration get applied, significant amounts of the ramps get ground away along with the stock lobe peaks while most of the base circle disappears. The 263 cam will only net about .270 inch lift with only slight increases in duration and increased overlap. When I looked at the rockers, then drafted to scale their dimensions on graph paper, I discovered that depending on the geometry caused by the adjusters position, the ratio varied between 1.42:1 and 1.53 at the other extreme. I resolved to increase the rocker ratio by offset boring and rebushing each rocker and the stands 1/16 inch closer to the push rods. This change would results in a new ratio of 1.66:1 when adjusted to the optimum geometry according to the math. The first thing I had to do is make two jigs to hold the rockers for offset boring in my Maximat7 mill. After the rockers were bored ,the bronze bushings were pressed in with locktite and all the oilling holes were redrilled. The new holes in each bushing were then deburred and champhered with a small ball cutter on a Dremel handpiece for more assured oiling To complete the mod the stands had to be cut down so that the shaft centerline sat perpendicular to the valve at half lift. The gross lift at the valve is now .470 inch and while not much by modern standards is a very good improvment for a 263. After the assembly was installed and thoughly checked out I dicided to make a strap girdle to run the complete length of the rocker assembly. I remilled the tops of all the stand to assure exactly equal height and a flat surface. I made spanner straps that sandwiched the stand's with through bolts and pieces of 3/8 inch black pipe on the pushrod side of the stands. These spanners were made from 1/4" X 1" stainless steel. I then cut and tigged a long strap of the same stock to each of spanner straps. The last thing to complete the process was to hygrade several sets of pushrods from solid lifter engines. These needed to be cut down to the optimum length fit the lower adjuster position. Within a few cuts and trims I arrived at the the correct length for the optimum location of the adjuster bolts. Each trim required pulling the pushrod tips off their tubes turning off a few thousandths and then repressing the tip back on. Much of this project was tedious repetition ( 16 times everything), the boring, pressing, turning, very time consuming. A couple months of after dinner shop time. On the plus side, low cost. Approximately $80 for tooling for the boring; $60 for bushing stock; about a $100 for the stainless; everything else came from the junkbox. The engine is up and running, installed in our 49 Sedanet SUPER, just waiting for spring and dry roads to see how well the new motor really does.

I hope this will bring some insight to how to make a major improvment to any of the Buick straight eight.
Best Regards to all that make this a great and useful website. KB. aka telekenfun.
 
:bana:
I did it. Being a cut price person in a low budget land I couldn't even consider using custom roller rockers for a street cruiser. But knowing that the 263 had very little valve lift increase available at the cam after a regrind that modified the duration and lobe separation, I was force to look to the rockers for any significant increase in gross lift at the valves. As the lobe centers get moved together and any increases in duration get applied, significant amounts of the ramps get ground away along with the stock lobe peaks while most of the base circle disappears. The 263 cam will only net about .270 inch lift with only slight increases in duration and increased overlap. When I looked at the rockers, then drafted to scale their dimensions on graph paper, I discovered that depending on the geometry caused by the adjusters position, the ratio varied between 1.42:1 and 1.53 at the other extreme. I resolved to increase the rocker ratio by offset boring and rebushing each rocker and the stands 1/16 inch closer to the push rods. This change would results in a new ratio of 1.66:1 when adjusted to the optimum geometry according to the math. The first thing I had to do is make two jigs to hold the rockers for offset boring in my Maximat7 mill. After the rockers were bored ,the bronze bushings were pressed in with locktite and all the oilling holes were redrilled. The new holes in each bushing were then deburred and champhered with a small ball cutter on a Dremel handpiece for more assured oiling To complete the mod the stands had to be cut down so that the shaft centerline sat perpendicular to the valve at half lift. The gross lift at the valve is now .470 inch and while not much by modern standards is a very good improvment for a 263. After the assembly was installed and thoughly checked out I dicided to make a strap girdle to run the complete length of the rocker assembly. I remilled the tops of all the stand to assure exactly equal height and a flat surface. I made spanner straps that sandwiched the stand's with through bolts and pieces of 3/8 inch black pipe on the pushrod side of the stands. These spanners were made from 1/4" X 1" stainless steel. I then cut and tigged a long strap of the same stock to each of spanner straps. The last thing to complete the process was to hygrade several sets of pushrods from solid lifter engines. These needed to be cut down to the optimum length fit the lower adjuster position. Within a few cuts and trims I arrived at the the correct length for the optimum location of the adjuster bolts. Each trim required pulling the pushrod tips off their tubes turning off a few thousandths and then repressing the tip back on. Much of this project was tedious repetition ( 16 times everything), the boring, pressing, turning, very time consuming. A couple months of after dinner shop time. On the plus side, low cost. Approximately $80 for tooling for the boring; $60 for bushing stock; about a $100 for the stainless; everything else came from the junkbox. The engine is up and running, installed in our 49 Sedanet SUPER, just waiting for spring and dry roads to see how well the new motor really does.

I hope this will bring some insight to how to make a major improvment to any of the Buick straight eight.
Best Regards to all that make this a great and useful website. KB. aka telekenfun.

That's very creative engineering! However offset bushing the stock rockers removes a lot of meat around the fulcrum, and I would be concerned about strength. Then again, it's a street engine with mild valve springs, so it's probably OK
 
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