To Alleycat

Wow, you(Alleycat) say around 3 feet back you went back to a single using a Y-collector. Very interesting. Are you using an open rear or are you using some form of the stock torque tube?

As for gearing. Is there a way to manipulate that using other torque tube Buicks rears or do we have to change to an open rear to gain that option. I am sure Buick used different rear ratios on their torques tube drive shafts. Whats the consensus. I know the open rear is the best option but what other options are there?


Fryguy
 
Fryguy, believe it or don't, the "optimum" primary tube lenth for the str8 is 40 to 44 inches or more!! And, the intake at around 24inches! Where did I get this? Well, there are some tech books dealing with intake& exhaust along with books on thermodydnamics and physics which I got into when I went to the "big school" and when you crunch the numbers this is what you get. However, sometimes the book and the real world don't quite agree. I found that the pipes can vary by 10" and actually work better, it broadens the power band, the intake can be fooled with, but 24 or more is it. Which, if a person looks at that howard 6 carb set up, can see that its all wrong for the str8. It is still a booger to get all that plubbing under the hood, which puts the collector just about under the front seat. I've spent days under there fabbing....

I'm still running the torque tube rear but I've changed gears around. The stick cars have 4.11, this works for the 1/4 mile. The autos up to 51 came with about 3.6, plus or minus a tooth or so, this is a good all around gear. However, if you start getting some power out of the engine, it will start to sound "short". 51 or later mostly came with 3.23, this works great! with that gear and some power, these road locomotives really step out. They are bolt in's. The open rear would give you more options but it's a major job to get it under there and then there's the trans, getting the driveshaft to plug in.....

Here we go....I like my dynaflow. (I can here it now, HAW-HAW-HAW...) Have I left my dyna alone?...Are polar bears afraid of the water? ( Haw!, not!!)I"ve done major mods to it. 20 years ago 18 or so mpg was ok. I'm thinking that we will see $5.00 gal gas sooner than we'll ever see $1.25 again...I like to drive my car. What we need is a overdrive. I think i've got the solution in my shop. Jyrki will love this....volvo! The volvo overdrive is a laycock "bolt in". I think with a front and rear flat plate adaptor, resplining input and putput shaft, bada-bing, overdrive! The rear gear ratio is now moot. Going down the freeway at around 70 the engine will be turning around 14 1500 rpm (I have a sw tack), with a 3.6, around 1800, tire size figgures in here, so we're "ballparkin" here. Anybody up for 25-26 mpg? With my 263 under the hood I'll pull any pass at any speed. So much for the gear problem. alleycat
 
trans & gear

I've heard some Pontiac and Olds transmission tailhousings bolt right up to the Buick manual trans, providing an open driveline. Rear gears swap but the 1954-55 don't fit the older axle, unless you swap the whole third member.

Volvo? HERETIC! Yes the Volvo M46 gearbox has a Laycock electric overdrive, commonly seen in the British makes such as Jaguar.

Bendtsen's offer a trans adapter for a TH-350/700 automatic, for about $700, including a new gear reduction starter motor. See www.transmissionadapters.com

At the time I built mine, nothing was available from the aftermarket. So I machined my bellhousing to accept a B-W Super T-10. With a Muncie, you don't even have to swap the clutch plate, as it comes with a 10-spline input shaft.

A third-gen Camaro/Firebird rear is a fairly easy swap to any chassis with an X-frame.
 
I don't see where in any of the advertisements or installation instructions or in miss. parts where they include My Mini-Starter for the NailHeads in the pricing or even offer it for sale. If you call & talk to Bob he may mention My Mini-Starter as an option that's stand alone. I have been referred to others by Bob.
I haven't as of yet, but I must send Bob an e-mail to thank him for doing such.

Tom Telesco
 
my 2 cents

the gearing is a big deal because its not that good for todays driving. The engines have torq but Buicks are heavy! My century has 3.90 gears in the rear and even with the big tires i have it still feels like its in second gear on the hiway. The 3.60 was an option for my century but not available anymore, and a 3.23 RR from a mid 50,s Buick sounds good, but then first gear is a little tall for the big series. The torq tube rears can be fitted complete using the whole later rear end by chopping it to the right length and just fitting up the torq ball/u joint. Yes the Olds, and Pontiac small series, are basically the same trans as the Buick, with open drive. The big series Olds V8s used a buick transmission up into the late 60,s, and it is open drive, I have one. the oldtimers used to use a 37, 38, floorshift Buick case with the Olds tailshaft for open drive, or they just bolted them into 54, up thru maybe even 1960? However you can make a later model open drive trans fit the buick bellhousing and go open drive. Jyrki did in his 46. I have a ford toploader overdrive trans, from a later model ford van. It has a lo first gear, and the a kinda tall second then 1 to 1 in 3rd, and overdrive in 4th. Its kinda wierd gear ratios but I,m thinking about it. I also found found a 4 speed column shift from an old Mercedes that might work off of my column. Hmmm maybe i,m getting too far out now??
 
Yeah!! The gearing is a big deal! When my special was stock and had rather a few miles on it, the 3.9's worked ok. But, as I got more and more power out of it, it felt "short". At that time around here, buicks were in every wrecking yard in huge amounts. I went out and tore into rearends and got every ratio there was. Tryed them all out. The 3.23 was the best for covering the ground at speed. However, if the engine is not making any power, the baby is howling at the moon. Now I'm thinking "overdrive". My 248 may not make enough power to pull it. However I've just found out something. While trying to make sense out what "39" is relating about the drag race engines specs (I don't know how they made it even run), I took a drive over to a cam regrinding outfit, Delta Cams, Tacoma WA., and had a talk with them about str8 cams. This is a area that I'm not to up to speed on. Turns out I'm not far off. The cam I had Comp Cams grind for me is little better than stock. So, for all practal purposes, all the power increase in my 248 is from ignition, the dual carbs, and head porting, the cam contributed zip!!. Seems that delta has been there befor and they know about the bigger base lifter and that a more "advantagous" ramp can be done, and the rocker arm ratio being not over1.5 if that. They also confirmed that much over 212-214 duration in the str8 is a waste of time. They have two grinds for the str8's, one for the smaller/stockish type engine and one for bigger engine or well built up. I took em two cams, gonna try em both!! Perhaps my 248 WILL pull a overdrive!!! You guys want cams? These guys will grind them for ya! No big mystery!!! Two day turnaround! Can't be beat! Alleycat
 
Cams!!!

Alleycat, I definitely would like to try a different grind for the cam. I have the 264 with no big engine mods and dual carbs. I don't have an extra cam laying around to send ya. Do you have any extra 263 cams? How much did they quote you for the cam grind?


Fryguy
 
Yeah, fryguy, I do have a few engines kicking around and they have cams in em, but I gotta dig them out. I just got the cams back from the grinder and do they look nice, and one of them was kinda not so great looking. There are two grinds, one nicely "warmed up" and the other "hoter". I 'll have the exact specs in a day or two. Either cam would work for you as you have the bigger engine, the bigger grind will give more mid range, like in the 2000 rpm area. The grind per cam is $108, a better deal can't be found. I'm going to hunt around for a few extra cam cores, just to have, as the wrecking yards for a long ways around here, all buick parts are totaly gone, never woulda thought....alleycat
 
when cores cannot be found anymore, you'll find new ones from EGGE. I don't know if they manufacture them or outsource them, but they are available.

Regarding mileage, the best I could run with my Roadmaster last summer was 20 mpg. It's quite an accomplishment for 1930's technology in a heavy car. Yet, with our gas prices being at $5.45 per gallon, it's barely tolerable :(
 
Hi all!

Camshafts are mentioned in Egge pages, core 150$ and grinding it 73$.... Would they grind it different specs if asked?

Maybe cam profiles could follow same route as the Ford 300cid straight six, since thay both are straight and torque engines.

Are there many differences between '49 and '52 big eights, what makes the 20hp difference. Distributor is different as is timing, compression also. Egge lists different product number for their cams.

Great thread you've got here!
 
I wish I could find a few buick motors to have on stock. I have been looking and looking. $108 is a great price for the cam grind. I am definitely in as long as I can find a core. How much would you charge me for a core? I may have a guy that may be able to send me an extra, I'll ask him as well. Let me know Alleycat. What part of the country are you from?


Fryguy
 
Yeah, I saw those too. $500 for the reground cam seems pretty high to me. I don't think that will work for my 263 motor.

The motor seems to be a decent deal as its a fresh rebuild. It costs that much just for the rebuild.


I have a line on a guy I bought a few things from. He has the whole motor available. I am going to try and get the head and cam.


Fryguy
 
Cam cores are now getting hard to find. You diffinatly don't want to toss this stuff into the scrap. The annoying thing is, that up to less than a year ago I could have got a dozen with little trouble, different story now. Can't throw anything away, soon as you do, two days later its needed. Problem with Egge is that only stock grinds are available, and 150 bucks a core? I'm going to put a little more effort in to digging up a few spares and perhaps have a few cams ground at one shot. The cool thing is, is that two grinds are available above stock.

Yeah, that gas milage thing, kinda figgured that you were getting whacked good in your area, jyrki, "barely tolerable" huh....sounds scarey. I want to keep driving my car and I'm trying to keep it realistic, and we are, as you said, dealing with 1930's technology. I'm going to have a real good idea as to how realistic my ideas are in a few months, when I get the 248 back into my '50.
 
Cam specs

Alleycat, could you try to find out the lift & duration specs for the two grinds from Delta Cams?
I assume the specs are rather similar for both the small and large engine. What I'm thinking about is having my 320 cam reground locally to the correct specs, as sending it overseas back and forth would be costly and risky.
 
320 engine mods?

Jyrki, the buick piston height, is that for a 1937 piston? or is it the later popup piston hght? that would account for it being higher than the chevy. Whatever it is, in order for it to be within reasonable price, a piston would have to be found that had the right compression height, so it would be even with the block at TDC, and close piston pin size, of course also close to the same bore size, preferably where u could get an oversize for more cubic inches. Oh well just use oversz 37' pistons. and weld up the combustion chamber like the OHV cadillacs and oldsmobiles would work good.The oldtimers were running around 340 to 356 cubic inches bored out. Not much you can do with the rods, not a big selection in over 8 inch rods out there. The rods can be welded by the bolt and normalized, shot peened etc. but the main thing is just don,t rev them too hi. There is a larger size crankshaft dampener I have one but its the only one ive ever seen. The ports on the head can be raised by filling in the top of the ports on the outside of the head, and then grinding or milling them higher. That would make a better angle into the head, for that important flow thats needed, flow is more important than size on these heads. the stock heads dont flow, its like they were designed to keep the engine from revving!
 
Buick performance.

Hi, I would like to know the specifications for the connecting rods on the straight 8 engines. I would like to know the rod journal diameters, wrist pin diameters, lenght of the rods, and the distance from top of piston to wrist pin location. This is for the 248, 263, and the 320 engines. thanks for any information anyone can pass along.
 
39CENT, the compression height I gave in an earlier message is a measure I took from a stock 1946 320 piston (I kept one). It has the "turbulator" dome. The total height from the center of wrist pin to top of dome is 2.843" according to shop manual, and measuring verified that. But the distance from pin center to piston crown is 60 mm which equals 2.362 inches.
The Chevy I-6 piston falls short, and does not come flush with the deck.

For those who might not know, if the piston crown does not come flush with the block deck surface, there's no point in welding the chamber, as threre will be no squish action. Some people also talk about quench when they mean squish. The idea is to create a tight clearance between the piston top (flattop piston) and the "closed" area of the combustion chamber, at the top dead center. As the piston approaches TDC, the mixture in this tight area is forced to a high speed, creating turbulence, which in turn increases flame speed = more power, better efficiency, more tolerance for compression ratio, less spark advance needed, less susceptible to knock. In theory, the best chamber shape would be the hemi-spherical one together with a flattop piston, just like the ones seen in 2-stroke engines. It can be done on a 4-stroke engine too, as we know, but leads to many compromises and expensive designs in port and valvetrain configuration.

The quench area actually means that the surface area, in that portion of the chamber, is too great in relation to the volume of that same area, cooling off the mixture so it won't ignite at all. The sole purpose of this area is to create turbulence, and this turbulence is usually directed towards the spark plug.

Welding the chambers sounds like a lot of work. I wonder if it was possible to weld a piece of mild steel in the chamber to lessen the weld work and the shaping effort thereafter?
 
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One more thing. The whole idea of adapting I-6 Chevy pistons, came from the fact that no high-performance pistons were ever made for the Buick I-8's, while there are, or at least were, high-performance slugs available for the Chevy. It's not only the increased displacement or compression ratio we are looking for, but a better piston design. I would like to find a forged or hypereutectic cast piston with a modern design, utilizing modern piston rings close to the crown, cam ground, offset pin location, etc.
 
Buick straight 8

Has any body thought about having the deck surfaced. Like if someone were to find pistons that will fit the wrist pins and the piston is just .125" below the top of the block?::bana:
 
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